Talk:Akita Association of JETs

Logo

Did AAJ have an official logo? Room to Read and Charity Akita both have logos up, so this one seems like the odd man out.
--SeanC (talk) 13:48, 6 September 2017 (JST)

Naming

I think this page should be renamed to Charity Akita. This page has the most detailed history of the organization, whereas the existing Charity Akita page is only a stub. The information on the latter can easily be amalgamated into this page. Room to Read and Akita Association of JETs can be set up as Redirects. --SeanC (talk) 08:41, 30 August 2017 (JST)

I agree that this page needs to be renamed, but disagree with it being renamed to Charity Akita. As you can see from history the name changes quite frequently. So I think it should be a more generic name. One that will not require a name change when the organization next chooses to rename themselves. But I do not have a good idea of what that name should be. What do you think? owencunn (talk) 09:49, 30 August 2017 (JST)

I remember having a similar discussion about the AAJ Ski Trip page! Unlike the Ski Trip, though, I'm not aware of any generic name for Charity Akita which has remained consistent throughout the years. Standard practice on Wikipedia appears to be separate pages for each organization when one organization succeeds another, but a redirect from the old name to the new name when an organization changes its name.

• Example 1: Capitol Wrestling Corporation is the organization which precedes World Wrestling Federation, so they both have separate pages.
• Example 2: World Wrestling Federation changed its name to World Wrestling Entertainment, but they are the same organization. So World Wrestling Federation redirects to World Wrestling Entertainment.

If the organization now called Charity Akita had had a convenient nickname, I would probably agree that we should change it to that and leave it. But since I can't think of any, I would still move to follow precedent and rename this page to Charity Akita (with the anticipation of changing it again when the organization changes their name again). This would also have the bonus benefit of keeping consistent with Charity Akita's stated goal of being accepted as a legitimate organization. What do you think? --SeanC (talk) 10:32, 30 August 2017 (JST)

Valid points Sean. Ok, you have convinced me. Work needs to be done to separate the two pages; Charity Akita and Akita Association of JETs. Instead of renaming this page, though, how about simply moving the relevant data from this page (since 2016) to the Charity Akita page? And then have whatever relevant redirects point there.
Also, I think that we should proceed in renaming AAJ Ski Trip to Appi Ski Trip as you suggested. Does your account have the privileges to rename (Move) pages? owencunn (talk) 12:12, 30 August 2017 (JST)

Yes, I can move pages!
I'm only worried about pages scattered throughout the wiki which link to AAJ. I imagine many of them don't link to AAJ with the intent referencing just this organization's time under the name AAJ, but rather intend to link to the organization as a whole in its current iteration. As any new pages will undoubtedly link to Charity Akita, to maintain consistency, wouldn't all links in previous pages have to be changed manually from AAJ to Charity Akita? --SeanC (talk) 13:19, 30 August 2017 (JST)

On any page you can click the What links here button in the tools section of the navigation bar on the left. Doing so for the AAJ page reveals this list. There are about 40 pages that link to it. Any pages that have a year in the title, older than 2016, or discontinued events etc, should link to the AAJ page. Looking at the list, it seems that about half should link to the AAJ page. The others will need to updated manually, which is pretty simple to do. owencunn (talk) 14:06, 30 August 2017 (JST)

I just had another idea that may be a compromise:
Rename this page Charity Akita so that all of the redirects are created automatically. Then, create a new page titled History of AAJ (or something along those lines), where we move all the non-Charity Akita related information. This new History page can be linked to from the main Charity Akita page. What do you think? --SeanC (talk) 13:43, 30 August 2017 (JST)

If we go back to your Example 1 above the title of Capitol Wrestling Corporation was not changed to the History of Capitol Wrestling Corporation, so this page name shouldn't be changed either. And of course the Charity Akita page will link to this AAJ page.
Going with your suggestion would see the following chain of events:

1. Delete the current Charity Akita page
2. Move Akita Association of JETs to a new Charity Akita page
3. (Re)Create Akita Association of JETs (or History of AAJ)
4. Update all incorrectly pointed redirects to point at the (re)created Akita Association of JETs

That seems like a long way to achieve the same goal. owencunn (talk) 14:06, 30 August 2017 (JST)

I was suggesting doing exactly that list, except for 4. The reason I was suggesting a brand new page with a title different from Akita Association of JETs was so that nothing would link to the new page. Or rather, all instances of links to both the current Charity Akita organization and the historical AAJ organization would link to Charity Akita. This would be keeping consistent with my example 2 above of World Wrestling Federation changing its name to World Wrestling Entertainment.
I guess it begs the question... is Charity Akita a brand new organization which is independent from AAJ, or is it the same organization as AAJ with a new name? I was assuming the latter, but perhaps I am mistaken to do so? --SeanC (talk) 14:25, 30 August 2017 (JST)

Hmm, I guess I had assumed the former, but of course, I may have been mistaken to do so! And the discussion becomes philosophical from here...
My thinking, which I now realize was not clear, was that the organizations are different. My idea was instead of having a separate page for each, we have one page, for example Akita's Charity Groups (or something with a better ring to it), and list the current and previous groups like is currently the case on this page.
I thought you were thinking that the organizations are also different, but that we should have a separate page for each. That's why I wanted to have older pages link to the AAJ page while newer ones link to Charity Akita, etc.
When AAJ changed it name/or transformed/ or whatever it did to become Charity Akita, it seemed like many of its values changed too. Some argued that they cut themselves away from the JET community, while other argued that they were becoming more inclusive. WWF changed to WWE because of a name conflict (I believe), not because of value changes.
So does the amount of change result in a similarity to example 1 or 2 above? I really don't know. owencunn (talk) 13:36, 31 August 2017 (JST)

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to accept your line of thinking. Charity Akita made a big deal about starting anew and distancing themselves from AAJ; with a new structural organization and staff of board members.
Okay, you've talked me into it! In that case, may I suggest a name that indicates that the organization(s) are/were run by ALTs? Perhaps something along the lines of ALT Charity Groups? --SeanC (talk) 14:29, 1 September 2017 (JST)

EDIT: Would you suggest a separate page for each iteration of RtR/AAJ/Charity Akita to be linked to from this page? Or perhaps just one new page for Charity Akita (being the current iteration, should it have it's own page, or should it be a redirect to here?) --SeanC (talk) 14:36, 1 September 2017 (JST)

Sorry for the slow response.
Ok, just to confirm we are on the same page, how about we outline the changes we propose. This is my current thinking; please suggest any different ideas you have.

1. Create a new ALT Charity Groups page.
   1. In this new page, create a list of the groups that have existed; Charity Akita, AAJ, Room to Read
   2. Write a short description of each, and a link to their respective main page.
2. Move specific Charity Akita information from Akita Association of JETs to the Charity Akita page
3. Move specific Room to Read information from Akita Association of JETs to the Room to Read page
4. Search the wiki for links and redirects, and make sure they point to the correct pages.

--owencunn (talk) 12:10, 5 September 2017 (JST)

I am in agreement with this list.
As for item 4 above, the situation may often arise where a currently running charity event has been ongoing since before the transition of AAJ into CA. The Appi Ski Trip is a good example, actually. I see two possible options for linking:

1. "The Appi Ski Trip is an event run by Charity Akita;" OR
2. "The Appi Ski Trip is a charity run event in Akita."

The exact wording may vary; I just want to bring your attention to which pages are linked. My vote is for the former. What do you think?
(I'm overthinking this, aren't I...!?)
--SeanC (talk) 16:44, 5 September 2017 (JST)

The Appi Ski Trip is probably a difficult example. It was originally created as a charity event by Room to Read in 2009. Then after AAJ took it over, they removed the charity aspect to make it simply an event. In any case, it is an event that was created by Room to Read, and is currently organized by Charity Akita. A column added to the history table could list the organization that ran the event by year. We can also use 2 (or 3) categories on this page: AAJ event, Charity Akita event/CA event, and if you wanted to go overboard, Room to Read event.
But to answer your actual question, it can (and should) be linked to multiple pages. One of the main functions of these wiki pages are to provide historical records. So I think, we should have as much details as possible. Current details are usually on Facebook or shared via email.
--owencunn (talk) 08:25, 6 September 2017 (JST)

Ah, very good. I'm personally not against a lot of information being repeated on a ALT Charity Groups that is also found on each individual page for Room to Read, AAJ, and Charity Akita (e.g. lists of events). Especially if it's data that can be organized into tables; tables which might provide a better overview of the timeline of charity events in Akita.
I'm also for the idea of each individual event page linking (in some form or another) to each organization which has run it over its history. I imagine formatting for these pages would be decided on a case-by-base basis.
I formally move to perform the following:

1. Create a new page titled ALT Charity Groups
   1. Include on the new page information on, and links to, each of Room to Read, AAJ, and Charity Akita
2. Move Charity Akita-relevant information on this page to the Charity Akita page
3. Move Room to Read-relevant information on this page to the Room to Read page
4. Search the wiki for links and redirects to make sure they all point to the appropriate place
   1. In some cases, links to multiple organizations may be appropriate

This list is only slightly modified from the one you posted above. What do you think?
--SeanC (talk) 09:36, 6 September 2017 (JST)

Let's do it! --owencunn (talk) 10:33, 6 September 2017 (JST)

Excellent. I'll get started!--SeanC (talk) 10:59, 6 September 2017 (JST)

Backend Name Change

>I was suggesting doing exactly that list, except for 4. The reason I was suggesting a brand new page with a title different from Akita Association of JETs was so that nothing would link to the new page. Or rather, all instances of links to both the current Charity Akita organization and the historical AAJ organization would link to Charity Akita. This would be keeping consistent with my example 2 above of World Wrestling Federation changing its name to World Wrestling Entertainment.
I guess it begs the question... is Charity Akita a brand new organization which is independent from AAJ, or is it the same organization as AAJ with a new name? I was assuming the latter, but perhaps I am mistaken to do so? --SeanC (talk) 14:25, 30 August 2017 (JST)

I am pretty sure it is possible, not positive but maybe Justin can change the page names in the backend. I will look over the weekend to see if its possible and send him a message. Might save everyone so much time changing everything--Jeff (talk) 16:10, 1 September 2017 (JST)

Jeff, I don't think that is necessary at all. But thank you. --owencunn (talk) 12:10, 5 September 2017 (JST)